S2 | E7 Terry Tateossian — Hormones, Hospitals, and Hard Truths

Rushed to the ER thinking it's over, just to hear "it's stress" and get sent home? We've been there.

This week, Lara chats with Terry Tateossian about those wild "am I losing it?" moments in your 30s and 40s.

Terry opens up on her fast-and-furious ride through perimenopause—hot flashes that feel like your body's on fire, finally putting yourself first without the guilt, that heavy-leg drag some days. We dive into hormone chaos, HRT fears, ditching people-pleasing, and docs who brush you off. If you've felt dismissed or nuts, you're not alone. Let's unpack it together.

Get to know more about Terry: https://www.thehouseofrose.com

If you have loved today’s episode, please share this with a friend. ❤️

About Lara Portelli:

As a successful business owner, NLP Practitioner, Midlife Reset Mentor, acclaimed award-winning author, and seasoned professional, Lara understands the challenges of navigating careers, business, and personal growth. She now channels her expertise into mentoring women through midlife and into their bodacious second act, helping ambitious women step into their power and build success on their own terms.

Connect with Lara: https://www.laraportelli.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Midlife Unplugged, the bucket year. I'm your host, Lara Portelli. This is the space where we strip away the polite Big X, rip the gloves off and get real about what it means to thrive in our second act. Each week I'm joined by a guest who's walking their own fodacious midlife path. We're talking menopause, divorce, reinvention, and everything in between. Buckle up, because this isn't your mother's midlife crisis. This is Midlife Unplugged. Hello and welcome back to Midlife Unplugged the Fuck It You's. I'm your host, Lara Portelli, and I have the lovely, lovely Terry joining me today from New Jersey, all the way from New Jersey. Hello, Terry, and welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

I'm great. Thank you, Lara, for having me. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Thank you. Thank you. How cold is it over there at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 0:53

It's it's pretty cold, but we are predicted to have 70 degree weather on Saturday, so hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Good, good. So, Terry, uh, welcome. And I'd love to dive in and hear all about your midlife story and what's got you to where you are today, as I know everyone's journey for our listeners at home, uh, and for you know the people that will be tuning in to this episode eventually. Tell us a little bit about your journey and midlife and what brought you to where you are today, and most most importantly, your fuck up moment. Tell us about your fuck up moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Oh my gosh. Well, my fuck-up moment was laying in the hospital, thinking I was having a heart attack and being given a Xanax and told told to go home. Yeah, twice. I did that twice. Okay. The first time I didn't get the message, the second time I took it a little bit more seriously, but um, I was uh late 30s, so um not many doctors back then, and this is 13 years ago, so not many doctors back then really knew or even thought about perimenopause for someone in their late 30s. So I went through it the fast and furious way, all on my own.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Wow. So through perimenopause?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Perimenopause and now full menopause for the last eight years.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Wow. So when you say fast and furious all on your own, no support, no HRT, is that what you mean? Just for our listeners at home. So that woman that's standing at the sink right now, and it might be her wine o'clock or her cup of tea time. Can you explain a little bit to that woman that is thinking, I think I need to go to the hospital? Because I know with my experience, I was I found myself in the fetal position. I thought I was dying. I thought I was having some sort of attack too or mental breakdown. Um, and everyone's different, so don't compare. But when you say on your own, do you mean just completely no support, no nothing?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah, so I that that was kind of my experience. So I literally thought I was having a heart attack. I was walking in a fetal position to the car to go to ER twice. That happened twice, right? And so I was convinced that there's I'm having a heart attack. I, you know, I'm dying, basically, right? And so I get into ER and I'm given a Xanax, told to go home. Um, happen again, you know, overnight. They keep you there, they keep you overnight, and then they can't find anything wrong with you. So they send you home, they give you a Xanax, you know, you're losing your shit, basically, right? And so this would keep going. So I just I had no clue, nobody mentioned perimenopause, menopause, hormones, you know, anything like that. So I literally thought I was going crazy uh for a little bit there until I discovered a different lifestyle. And it all kind of got mixed up together. So all the hot flashes, all the symptoms of perimenopause. I did not know I was in perimenopause until the age of 42, and I had not had a period for a year, and then I thought I was pregnant and when it started. So when I figured I was pregnant, that's when I realized something's really wrong, like something's not right, right? And then I went to get checked, and yeah, I was in menopause.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

And tell us a bit from that journey when you figured out when it was uh established that you were in menopause, what was your next step? Because no one gives us a rodent. And everyone's journey is different. It's like our life journey. I know I found myself in I don't know how many times I went to the ER. Um, I was hospitalized. I ran so many, um, so many tests. I was given medication, an antidepressant. That did I know, and little did I know, it actually makes you stop your your bodily functions. So I've got this cocktail, yeah, I've got this cocktail of because I wasn't sleeping. And but again, you leave the hospital with this bag of cocktail of medication that you don't need. Um, but there's no what next? There's no, okay, a roadmap like um, this is what I do next, this is what I do. And it's almost like for me, it felt like I was trudging through quicksand. How about you, Terry?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, the way that I uh you described exactly same, same thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Well, it feels like you're walking with essa blocks on your feet, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

A hundred percent. Absolutely. And and the thing that I got I got lucky, okay. So I'm just gonna preface everything I say with the fact that I I got very lucky. And the reason is because I attributed all of these symptoms to the fact that I had gained a lot of weight in my 30s uh with uh two pregnancies and all these things. And I attributed, I blamed the weight gain, which I'm sure it had a part in how severe my symptoms were. Uh, but overall, I just didn't feel good. And so I went on this journey of trying to figure out how to lose weight, unbeknownst to me that I was in perimenopause. And in that process, I discovered that I could get all of these symptoms to subside if I ate well, if I timed my meals properly, you know, every few hours rather than just having one big meal at the end of the day. If I lifted weights, that made a lot of things better. If I lost a little weight, that made things better, if I paid more attention to my sleep. And uh, you know, there's lots of products out there that are natural, like magnesium, for example. Um, if I supplemented with magnesium, that would help me sleep well. I also realized that I had to keep my sleep consistent, right? So before all of this, before this whole journey, I was very inconsistent with my sleep. So sometimes I'd go to bed at nine, sometimes it would be at 2 a.m., sometimes it'd be 10. I was all over the place because I was working and I had kids. And so uh when I started figuring out how do I stay consistent, that really helped quite a bit. I got rid of all the TVs, all the screens out of the bedroom, kept it super dark, um, changed the mattress, all that stuff, right? Uh and so it all really had a significant uh impact on my overall sleep, which, you know, as a consequence, everything else worked much better. Uh, but I remember one night I was lying in bed and I was having a hot flash. But I had no idea that that was a hot flash. I would go to conference, uh, conferences and meetings and board meetings and things like that, and I would break out into this crazy sweat, and I had no idea why. Um, I just thought I was nervous, but I was like, what am I nervous about? Like, what is going on? Uh never really dawned on me, but um, as time went on, you know, I kind of figured out that, you know, I thought maybe it's because my metabolism had fired up, right? So I'd be laying in bed, breaking out into a crazy sweat. I'd be burning from the inside out. And because I was going to the gym and I was doing all these things to try and lose weight, I I thought, wow, my metabolism is literally on fire. Being completely clueless that I was having um high flashes.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah. Okay. I think we can all resonate with well, no, some people's symptoms uh, some people's um experiences are different. Not every woman has hot flash, like hot flashes. I can remember going to the doctor and they presented me with I couldn't, I couldn't I lost count on the um different symptoms of menopause. Some people have a metallic taste in their mouth. Just some of them blue dry mouth, a metallic taste in your mouth. Um people some some women feel like they've got something growing on their skin and um poorly underneath their skin, like underneath a layer of their skin. And I just think we need to what I like is that you would you're talking about it's not a decline, it's actually another chance to uh not educate so much, but to evolve and learn some more about ourselves. And um I think if we go back a couple of generations, it wasn't even talked about, but now we you know there definitely is more education around it. And I wonder, you know, how many of our ancestral women and mothers were taken away, so to speak, or put into you know, um asylums because they th people thought they were crazy. And that's and we thought, well, I thought I was going nuts. I thought I was going crazy. I really did. When I hit 50, um, I thought, I'm going nuts. Like, what's wrong with me? I'm crying. Um yeah. But I'd had a um I'd had a surgical intervention a few years before, so it was a bit different for me. And that's what I want to talk about here, that everyone's journey is different. But if something um doesn't feel right, just keep going, keep going. One step in and I I can remember sitting at a doctor's surgery um exhausted, and I started to see this other woman at the doctor's surgery as well consistently, and she said, I think I'm losing my mind. I said, Well, so do I. I think I'm and each day we'd be there, you know. And in the end, the doctors were just saying, Don't come back here, there's nothing wrong with you. What do you do with that as well?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That that's fascinating. So, women that have had surgical intervention that um has stopped their hormones from being at a baseline, uh, that is such a sad story to me that they're not receiving HRT, and I hear this all the time. Um, you know, women in their 30s that have had uh something done, like a hysterectomy, for example, and then no uh bioidentical hormones are being offered, I think is a travesty, really, because yeah, I mean, all of the menopausal symptoms are coming, you know, come all at the same time rather than evolve naturally. And then something else that I'm noticing that I find very very interesting, and this is just an observation, I'm not a doctor, I I do speak to a lot of women. And some a pattern that I have noticed is that women that have taken birth control for 20 to 30 years have do experience perimenopause and menopause very differently than, for example, women that have not taken birth control. And so when you go back to, you know, let's say 30, 40 years ago when they they would institutionalize women during perimenopause, uh, because they just, you know, we don't understand exactly how hormones work. Uh, we're still kind of in that learning phase of humanity, and especially with women's reproductive health. Uh, it that, I mean, it's so many, there's so many cases of that, so much historical information on that, uh, just the lack of understanding of how everything works and then being attributed to, you know, going into a sanatorium, for example. Uh, so that made me really curious. Uh, last year, actually, I started digging into a lot of mental illnesses. They're now starting to talk about and question whether traditional mental illness uh can potentially be hormone related. Like, for example, I I did stumble on this study that talked about schizophrenia, especially in women, because it presents itself and usually with women right about that age, at around perimenopausal age, um, they're looking into whether it's hormone repl uh uh related and whether hormone replacement can alleviate some of the symptoms. So it's fascinating information.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Wow. Wow, stop there for a second. Did everyone hear that? Wow. There's just not enough um enough research out there, I don't think, you know, like you were just saying, we don't know enough about the hormones. And I, for one, like I can remember having my partial hysterectomy in, you know, in my sort of mid to late forties, late ish forties, and I was so scared and sworn off HRT. No, no, breast cancer. Breast cancer, don't go anywhere near it. Don't need it. Um and then when I went into this fetal position, there's something wrong, what's happening to me? Um and I kept going back and I got the gel and I got this and I got that and I tried this and I tried that, and I ended up with this big cocktail bag of medication. And then finally the doctor, my doctor and I come to uh came to an agreement let's try HRT. But I was so scared, Terry. I was so scared. I said, I don't want breast cancer, I don't want breast cancer. Well, you'll have your mammogram and we'll try. And I think I'm on I'm still on 0.06 of HRT. Um, but he said that it's been scared into people about breast cancer. Where women, like you were just saying, it's a travesty because so many women are suffering out there when they could be having HRT, because we've all been so scared to death about the what might happen or could happen. So I had my mammogram last year, everything's fine, thankfully. I'm um on HRT. And honestly, when I started on the HRT, the five o'clock in the afternoon, from five to seven, I used to be a profusely sweating being that used to just wander around the kitchen not knowing what I was doing for dinner or um teary, and that's all gone. But I suffered so long because I was scared. And how you know, for our listeners, how many people are out there living in fear? Fear. Like Do you have it in America where people are scared of HRT?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

I mean, absolutely. That you know, the doctors are afraid to prescribe it. Um, and I I believe it all roots from this, there's this one study that was done um that concluded that the risk was high, but I can't cite it at the moment exactly off the top of my head, but it was uh incorrect essentially, right? So this study was used to instill this fear, but then when researchers have gone back recently to reevaluate what the findings were, um, many of them are saying that the percent is of getting breast cancer when using HRT is pretty much the same as the chances of getting cancer without HRT. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Wow. That's so all those years people have been scared off. No, I don't want to, I don't want to. And then the suffering, and then as you've just said before, the mental side of it and schizophrenia and it's quite scary what's going on out there. Quite scary.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah. And I mean, if you think about um what's happening in today's world, right? So 30, 40 years ago, women did suffer, um, and we didn't really have as much information as we do today. But 30, 40 years ago, our environment was really different as well, right? And so the environment that we lived in 40 years ago, the food was different, the level of prescription medication and how many people were prescribed things was very different, right? The ratios were different. Um, you know, a lot of women were not on birth control, which technically puts you into a synthetic menopause, right? And so, um, or chemically induced menopause. And so, you know, everything was very different than it is today. Today we have a toxic environment to begin with, right? Our food is full of herbicides, pesticides, they're all hormone disruptors. Our beauty products, right? Our everyday cleaning products, beauty products, hair products, shampoo products, you name it. Even laundry detergent is full of fragrances and all kinds of things. The clothing that we wear is mostly synthetic, right? And all of these uh disrupt our hormones to begin with. And so when we enter perimenopause, you know, in my opinion, things are even more chaotic for us nowadays in today's world, you know, accounting for the fact that the food is not the way that it was 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Absolutely. Uh our poor chickens are stuffed with so much in Australia, uh, with so many antibiotics to get them out and produced mass-produced hormones and you're so right. There's just so many more chemicals that can disrupt our hormones. I just want to change um tech paper for a little bit, Terry, and you talk also about um self-sabotage and women's self-sabotaging. Can you touch on that for us for a moment and what your experience is around that? Because I work with women that experience this, and um, I'm just interested to know your experience around uh women and self-sabotage.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

We are all self-saboteurs, right? And uh yeah, I mean, um my experience with self-sabotage was I was a professional saboteur to myself in every possible way. And you know, when it came to work, when it came to people, other people, when it came to uh family and and obligations and responsibilities and things like that, I did not uh sabotage, right? I was a people pleaser, I did not know boundaries and things like that. So I was very much looking to um make everybody around me happy, and that came at a price, right? So the self-sabotage came in anytime I try to do something for myself, for my own health. And so I would I would work really hard on everything except that every time I did took a few steps forward with my own health, like resting during perimenopause, right? Having enough space to process the transition, right? Having enough uh breathing room to sleep enough hours, right? Uh, being able to go off the clock for uh, you know, earlier than normal, you know, all of those things are um uh behaviors that are required. They're not even a luxury, they're not a nice to have, they're not something that, oh, you know, you're being lazy because you need more time or you need more sleep. And so all of those things kind of worked against me because I would just bulldoze through anything that I personally needed and I would sabotage any type of um journey. So one of them was when I was trying to lose weight, every time I try to lose weight, I would sabotage that. Uh, anytime I got on the right path for a while, I would find reasons why I need to quit. I need to stop doing that. That's a waste of time. Or going to the gym, that's a waste of time. You never, you know, who do you think you are? You know, you're taking an hour a day for yourself to go to the gym. And so I would always find a way to um exit out in a sense. And uh part of me would always fight back. It would always say, No, no, no, no, wait a minute. You know, this thing that we were doing, it was working. Okay, so why are you quitting? And so I would always be attracted back into figuring out why did I quit something that was working for me? Uh, thank goodness. There's some part. Of me that's not a saboteur, but there's a lot of parts that are right. And so, how do you get on the same page with yourself if there's a lot of parts of you that are saboteurs? So, what I did is I um would listen to all of those old beliefs, I would listen to all of the old programming, I would invite all of those thoughts to come forward and I would let them air out their grievances, right? So let's say that there was a part of me that I thought, oh, you know, you're too tired all the time, you work so hard. Why do you have to work even harder and go to the gym? Right. Um, so I would invite that conversation internally and hear what the message is and then still continue moving forward, but as a team this time, right? And so the answer to uh an old belief or that type of identity coming forward, because they're old identities, right? So sabotaging thoughts and sabotaging behaviors are the types of behaviors and beliefs that are old patterns that are trying to protect you. So if a thought comes in, like, oh, you're too tired, why do you need to go to the gym if you're so tired? You know, it's trying technically to protect you from being more tired, right? And so the way that I would handle something like that is to have like open discussion on, you know, what do you what is your ultimate goal? Why do you um believe that going to the gym is gonna make me sick or tired or injured? And let's open that up and let's really unpack that because it's untrue, right? And so it's if it's untrue, it's an old belief that's no longer serving me. And therefore, you know, little by little, it kind of gets replaced by the new belief, but it's not a light switch, it doesn't happen overnight. And you have to kind of work on it, uh, you know, for as long as it takes, ultimately.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah. And do you think, Terry, that I'm just wondering because something else that you talk about is, and I'm wondering if it's a precursor, is societal expectations and what we're brought up with.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I mean, a lot of it is trauma-based, right? So a lot of our uh sabotaging behaviors and our old patterns and unhealthy ways of identifying ourselves, it comes from trauma, right? So abandoning yourself uh usually comes from being abandoned or judging yourself or self- you know, harsh critic criticism towards yourself usually comes from having experienced that as a young child, but also from your surroundings, right? So if you grow up in an environment that did not value or they devalued uh going to the gym as something that's a vain and a waste of time, you're going to naturally want to please the family unit, right? So whether that's your your mom, your dad, siblings, etc., you're naturally gonna want to belong to the family unit. So you're gonna shy away from doing things that are considered vain or waste of time or you know, useless and you know, things like that, right? And so you kind of grow up with that installation of a belief very early on, and then you have to challenge yourself later on as information changes, right? This the science changes, um, you know, the world really changes, but those beliefs are still installed into your psyche, and so it it you know it takes time.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And when you have done something for yourself and you've done your what's your old conversation forward, and you've talked through that conversation and worked through that conversation. Let's use the gym for an example, and you may have been consistent and gone to the gym. What do you do then for yourself? Like, is a reward system do you is it just is it being consistent enough of a reward? I'm not talking about going and having a great big dirty slice of cake. What I'm trying to get across to our listeners is if you're being consistent and um you know, and having those conversations and you've talked to the old narrative and the old the newer narrative is starting to come over the top. Do you reward yourself, Terry? What do you do for yourself? Because I think that's important to you because that can be um another layer on top, so to speak. You've done you've gone to the gym for a week or two weeks or a month consistently. And what do you do for yourself when you've done something consistently for yourself versus the old way of thinking?

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Hmm, that's a really good question. Yeah, I mean, some of the rewards that I gave myself were maybe a new outfit, right? Or maybe new uh gym shoes, or um, you know, maybe some new gadget, like wrist straps or gloves, or you know, just something that would make me happy and excited to get more involved into the lifestyle, right? Because ultimately what we're looking for when we begin a new habit, especially something like fitness or nutrition, lifestyle in general, is to ultimately become that identity, right? So we don't just want to perform these things, we want to become the type of person that is those things, right? So integrating those types of activities or habits as part of the identity, or they're not gonna stick. And so a lot of people ask me that I work with clients that I work with, you know, why why was I consistent for let's say three months and then I completely dropped it and I haven't done these things for myself for three months, right? And I'm ready to come back and pick pick it up again. Why did I do that? Because three months was for you for for you in particular. Let's say this example, for this particular example, three months was not enough time to integrate that as part of the identity. Now, for me, it took years. I was one stubborn MFR, okay? I took a long time. Okay. Some people they can integrate, like for example, kids, right? So children have a lot more neuroplasticity in their brain, and they're like sponges, right? So their new experiences or their identities are formed really quickly and it takes on quickly, right? So they become the type of person who does X, for example, right? But when you're almost 50 years old in your entire life, you believe that you know this is such a vain thing and this is not this, I that's not me, you know, that kind of thing. It takes a long time. And so if somebody's trying to be consistent and then they fall off, it's not because they didn't get a reward, because the reward is the activity itself, right? The reward is showing up for yourself, even when you don't feel like it. The reward is making yourself the priority for a change. And you know, first time maybe in your whole life. That's the reward, the feeling that you get from keeping your own promises, right? The feeling of feeling uh uh secure and safe of not abandoning yourself once again, right? That that's truly the reward. The the materialistic aspect of it, or um, you know, rewarding yourself with food. You know, I've done that. I have rewarded myself with food. So some of the things I used to do in the very beginning of this journey is I would bake myself these amazing protein brownies, and that was my reward. That was my meal after the gym. Or I would make myself a protein ice cream that I knew was gonna keep me consistent with my goals, and that that was the gift of time, right? So the reward was I gave myself the time to create these, you know, protein brownies, or this protein ice cream, or this, you know, protein chocolate mousse or whatever it was. And that was my reward because I love food. So I like that, right? So I like really good food, and that was a great way for me to reward myself by giving myself the gift of something that would keep me aligned with my goals rather than stray away from the goals. And then over time, the more you repeat this pattern and the more you kind of create a new neuropathway in the brain by constant repetition, repetition, repetition, eventually that's the path, that's the easier path for your brain to take rather than the old way. Because the old path has now grown dusty. There's too many branches, you haven't really used it that much, you know, it hasn't been maintained. But the new pathway, the new road is now easier than going back to the old identity. And so that's what I tell people when they fall off, it's because it just it hasn't taken yet, it hasn't integrated.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah, absolutely. And I like what you're saying about um, and you also talk about um natural processes through uh perimenopause and menopause. And I like that too. I try to work out uh eat as naturally as I can, um, and protein and things that don't have fillers in them, and and of course, today we've touched a lot on fitness, but there are other ways that you can you know uh change habits and finding some self for your uh finding some time for yourself in your week. Some people it might be a bubble bath, some people it might be taking a walk. Uh there's so many different ways that you can uh prioritize and look after yourself through Harry Menopause and menopause. So as we wrap up today, Terry, what's one integral point or message you'd love to get out to our listeners about your journey or where you're heading or what's happening for you at the moment, and to send to our uh listeners?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah, so if your intuition is telling you something, no matter what everybody else says, no matter what your doctors say, no matter what friends, family say, if you feel that there's something that's unexplainably happening to you and that something's wrong, uh follow that pattern, right? Follow that thought pattern and advocate for yourself because there's a there's answers out there and there are solutions uh out there. There's many different uh things that could be integrated into your life or maybe even taken away, right? So there's a lot of things that can be removed from your lifestyle that can help, and there's things that could be um added that could be beneficial. So just don't quit. Keep looking, keep searching. The answers are out there. There's a lot of women and there's a lot of communities you can join that um, you know, some of the best advice I've ever gotten, even on like things health-related, were from regular people that have experienced these things and they hear me talk about it and they say, Oh my gosh, I just went through this exact same thing. Here, go talk to this particular doctor, right? Or go talk, go see this holistic medicine uh doctor, or you know, whatever it may be, or try this product or whatever, right? And so don't don't shy away from sharing the struggle, sharing the challenges, sharing that, yeah, you know, I feel like I'm going crazy, right? Um, it's a real thing. It it it's it happens to so many of us. Uh, you're not going crazy, there's nothing to be ashamed about, and just keep looking for keep looking for help.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Absolutely, Terry. You've hit it on hit the nail on the head. We try to the day this we start to feel this feeling, we get up and we try to get on with life as we know it that before. And things are shifting and we don't know. We don't know what we don't know. And I can't even count how many doctors I went to see before. And I'm still on my journey. I'm still on my journey, and I'll be 55 in June. So yeah, and there's no my friend, my friend um had one year, my friend had 11 years, and everyone's different. Everybody is literally different. Literally, yeah. Literally, everybody is different. So if you take anything from Terry's uh chat today, keep on it, keep at it, don't give up on yourself, even if that's something that you integrate into your psyche, you know. Oh, I've got I feel defeated after seeing another doctor. I know that feeling, Terry knows that feeling, but keep going, keep going, reach out. There's some great groups out there and forums on social media. I know social media can be a bit okay going, but it's about striking what's right for you. You know, and what's right for you maybe very different to the person next to you. Okay, so thank you so much, Terry. That was so uh so interesting. And I love that, you know, listen to your intuition and um so many other things you had to say there. So that was just great, so enlightening. Thank you so much for joining us today. And um I look forward to seeing all of you again and all our listeners on the next episode of Midlife Unplugged the Fuck It Years. I'm your host, Lara Portelli, and I look forward to chatting to you very soon. That's a wrap of this episode of Midlife Unplugged, the fuck it years. If today's conversation is something up in here, hit subscribe, share it with your midlife crew, and keep the conversation going. I'm Lara Portelli. See you next week for another raw, real, and unapologetic chat.